Upgrades voor de beginner.

[michiel80]

Een ander iets wat mij tijdens de skirm opviel is dat de cyma een wat scherpere 'knal' maakte dan de replica's van de anderen in de squad. Die klonken wat doffer in mijn oren.. Is dat een teken dat er iets mis kan zijn, of is dat sowieso per aeg verschillend?

(total noob vraag misschien)

 

[b.samriey]

I would also not recommend 13:1 gear sets to people that have only one gun and never tinkered with it. Also it is not correct that KWA, KRYTAC and VFC use 13:1 gears, literally every manufacturer uses standard 18:1 gear ratio, I would love to see where it says any of these 3 manufacturers uses other ratio's regularly? 13:1 would mean you could run into PME, although on a 7.4 it is unlikely on a 11.1 it is nearly guaranteed, which means you need to short stroke, also on 13:1 you have to shim and correct AOE to not break the gun after a few skirms. AKA not really a recommendation for a beginner.

Here you can read description the VFC M16 use (Gears High Speed) and also the KWA M4RIS M4 and SR10 has High Speed gears which i have it in my M4

 

[b.samriey]

One more thing before storming this topic by too many suggestion of upgrade parts ask your yourselves this questions:
Is there are a (one web-shop) offer all these upgrade parts at one time so he can order it from him to decreasing the shipping cost?
The answer is no.
Therefore we should move with him to the alternatives and what is available in low cost and good preference to save his budget and level up his gun to the best result with this amount of money.
I can tell him get Systema cylinder head from shop.ehobbyasia.com and get hop up chamber from redwolfairsoft.com but at the end the shipping cost he payed more than what he save to upgrade his M16..

 

[Foodie88]

'In principe' kan je elke replica op superhoog niveau opkrikken alleen bij de budget merken zoals CYMA moet er dan meer aan gebeuren dan bij de merken zoals VFC, Krytak, E&L etc. Je kan best een CYMA zover krijgen dat ie 70-80 m relatief accuraat schiet, maar dan is de buitenkant het enige dat nog CYMA is Het is maar de vraag of je dat wilt, dan heb je een fortuin in de replica gestoken en zit je nog steeds aan de tegenvallende externals vast.

Ook moet je denken aan de 80/20 regel; met 20% van het geld kun je 80% van de maximaal mogelijke verbetering in performance realiseren, de laatste 20% kost je 80% van het geld. Dus vind gewoon de upgrades die je het meeste opleveren, koop en installeer die en ga dan er eens mee spelen. Ik zou zoals aangegeven beginnen met de Maple Leaf bucking + nub en wellicht een betere barrel.

 

[b.samriey]

'In principe' kan je elke replica op superhoog niveau opkrikken alleen bij de budget merken zoals CYMA moet er dan meer aan gebeuren dan bij de merken zoals VFC, Krytak, E&L etc. Je kan best een CYMA zover krijgen dat ie 70-80 m relatief accuraat schiet, maar dan is de buitenkant het enige dat nog CYMA is Het is maar de vraag of je dat wilt, dan heb je een fortuin in de replica gestoken en zit je nog steeds aan de tegenvallende externals vast.

Ook moet je denken aan de 80/20 regel; met 20% van het geld kun je 80% van de maximaal mogelijke verbetering in performance realiseren, de laatste 20% kost je 80% van het geld. Dus vind gewoon de upgrades die je het meeste opleveren, koop en installeer die en ga dan er eens mee spelen. Ik zou zoals aangegeven beginnen met de Maple Leaf bucking + nub en wellicht een betere barrel.

Well said.
You bring it from the end.
Now if michiel80 want just to improve his range and accuracy (in my experience i advice him to get Poseidon barrel with Ama Tsu Maru hop up chamber) and he can leave the rest to the future to upgrade his M16 or not at lest he can switch this barrel and chamber to the new M16 (perhaps he will buy it in the future).

 

[Foodie88]

Thanks samriey. Now, I do not have experience with nor knowledge of Poseidon or Ama Tsu Maru but as you are more experienced than I am, I guess it will be good! Those upgrades should already bring his CYMA up to the level of most other AEGs.

Maybe the last thing that he will want to do is an AOE correction and shimming, as the gearbox / piston are probably not of the highest quality. It won't do anything to improve performance but it should increase the longevity of his setup.

 

[Voormalig-Forumlid-161220]

Een ander iets wat mij tijdens de skirm opviel is dat de cyma een wat scherpere 'knal' maakte dan de replica's van de anderen in de squad. Die klonken wat doffer in mijn oren.. Is dat een teken dat er iets mis kan zijn, of is dat sowieso per aeg verschillend?

(total noob vraag misschien)

AOE correctie (sorbopad of kraanafdichtingsringen), silent piston head en cylinder to barrel ratio, zal vooral een van de eerste twee zijn die de klap die je hoort opvangen, of je bedoelt meer een krijsend geluid want dat zijn eerder je tandwielen.

Here you can read description the VFC M16 use (Gears High Speed) and also the KWA M4RIS M4 and SR10 has High Speed gears which i have it in my M4

Yeah sure they might use High speed gears but that doesn't mean it is 13:1, did you count the ratio of the gears, might as well be 16:1. For example Lonex calls their 16:1 ratio gears high speed, while in airsoft we usually refer to 13:1 as high speed, but did you ever consider the 10:1 ratio gears that siegetek makes, probably not so high speed is not a definition for 13:1 ratio gears. I think it is more of a marketing gimmick, because you use a 11.1V right? With 13:1 you would be able to get 30 RPS and I don't believe you get that right?

One more thing before storming this topic by too many suggestion of upgrade parts ask your yourselves this questions:
Is there are a (one web-shop) offer all these upgrade parts at one time so he can order it from him to decreasing the shipping cost?
The answer is no.
Therefore we should move with him to the alternatives and what is available in low cost and good preference to save his budget and level up his gun to the best result with this amount of money.
I can tell him get Systema cylinder head from shop.ehobbyasia.com and get hop up chamber from redwolfairsoft.com but at the end the shipping cost he payed more than what he save to upgrade his M16..

Yeah but you are trying to fully upgrade a replica while he doesn't want to tinker with the gearbox like he stated before and just wants to improve the range, which can be easily accomplished by installing the maple leaf bucking and nub and those are well priced at skirmshop, when considering the shipping cost.

'In principe' kan je elke replica op superhoog niveau opkrikken alleen bij de budget merken zoals CYMA moet er dan meer aan gebeuren dan bij de merken zoals VFC, Krytak, E&L etc. Je kan best een CYMA zover krijgen dat ie 70-80 m relatief accuraat schiet, maar dan is de buitenkant het enige dat nog CYMA is Het is maar de vraag of je dat wilt, dan heb je een fortuin in de replica gestoken en zit je nog steeds aan de tegenvallende externals vast.

Ook moet je denken aan de 80/20 regel; met 20% van het geld kun je 80% van de maximaal mogelijke verbetering in performance realiseren, de laatste 20% kost je 80% van het geld. Dus vind gewoon de upgrades die je het meeste opleveren, koop en installeer die en ga dan er eens mee spelen. Ik zou zoals aangegeven beginnen met de Maple Leaf bucking + nub en wellicht een betere barrel.

Ja en nee, Ja elke replica kan op een gelijk niveau worden getrokken door er maar genoeg geld in te stoppen, echter is de max range tussen de 50 en 60 meter als we kijken naar de natuurkunde. Als je verder wil komen moet je gaan werken met joule creep of hogere FPS. 80/20 regel klopt wel ongeveer ja maar dan meer om de laatste 5 procent aan performance eruit te persen, zeker omdat je door DIY mods redelijk wat geld kan besparen.

Well said.
You bring it from the end.
Now if michiel80 want just to improve his range and accuracy (in my experience i advice him to get Poseidon barrel with Ama Tsu Maru hop up chamber) and he can leave the rest to the future to upgrade his M16 or not at lest he can switch this barrel and chamber to the new M16 (perhaps he will buy it in the future).

Come on @b.samriey this is just absolutely incorrect, especialy to get more range you shouldn't start with upgrading the barrel. I know you love the Poseidon barrel design but they don't have some special unicorn dust all over them that magically adds more range and a hop up is definently not gonna change the range.

 

[bvdzeeuw]

One more thing before storming this topic by too many suggestion of upgrade parts ask your yourselves this questions:
Is there are a (one web-shop) offer all these upgrade parts at one time so he can order it from him to decreasing the shipping cost?
The answer is no.
Therefore we should move with him to the alternatives and what is available in low cost and good preference to save his budget and level up his gun to the best result with this amount of money.
I can tell him get Systema cylinder head from shop.ehobbyasia.com and get hop up chamber from redwolfairsoft.com but at the end the shipping cost he payed more than what he save to upgrade his M16..

I think you are missing the point here. He just wants more range and MAYBE a better barrel. Thats all he wants. He just had his first skirm and is new in the scene. Why would he need 13:1 gears when he even did not shim his gearbox nor his Aoe, thats the first thing you will need to do before you even start thinking about 13:1 gears.

for 20 bucks he can get alot more range by simply buying a better bucking and nub. From there on he can decide what the next upgrade will be. And if he wants to get a new AEG he can always re use the bucking and nub. And those 2 parts you can order at one webshop wich is called skirmhop.

 

[Voormalig-Forumlid-161220]

Oh PS: denk ook aan goede bbs lijkt een domme opmerking maar dit heeft ook wel invloed op je performance .

 

[b.samriey]

Ok let's recalculate it again.
He is on budget between €80,- and maximum €110,- ( if i am not wrong)
What i should suggest him?
PDI barrel cost him € 103.75 + shipping = €115
No
Suggest him Prometheus 6.05mm €120 + shipping = outboard??
No
Suggest him Action army 6.03 without upgrade?
Just worthless and definitely will make him sitting duck in the field.
So you blame me why i mention upgrade things?
Now no upgrades desirable, so what i have to suggest him in your opinion?
The Poseidon barrel because i try it and i have two of them and just great for the performance and value of money plus the barrel come with great bucking and nub so i was wrong?
Correct me if I am..

 

[michiel80]

AOE correctie (sorbopad of kraanafdichtingsringen), silent piston head en cylinder to barrel ratio, zal vooral een van de eerste twee zijn die de klap die je hoort opvangen, of je bedoelt meer een krijsend geluid want dat zijn eerder je tandwielen.

Ik denk dat t dan het eerste is wat je zei. De gears zijn redelijk stil naar mijn idee.

 

[michiel80]

No need to get agitated people. I greatly appreciate all the help so far. I'll start with the smaller upgrades and see what I'll do from there on.

Plan so far:

Start with lonex hop up and maple leaf/ prometheus bucking and nub.

Maybe I'll get a better 6.03 mm barrel as well while I'm at it.

After noticing the improvements I'll probably be upgrade hooked and put the rest on my christmas list. (beats the hell out of a new pair of socks and a couple of sweaters lol)

 

[Voormalig-Forumlid-161220]

Ok let's recalculate it again.
He is on budget between €80,- and maximum €110,- ( if i am not wrong)
What i should suggest him?
PDI barrel cost him € 103.75 + shipping = €115
No
Suggest him Prometheus 6.05mm €120 + shipping = outboard??
No
Suggest him Action army 6.03 without upgrade?
Just worthless and definitely will make him sitting duck in the field.
So you blame me why i mention upgrade things?
Now no upgrades desirable, so what i have to suggest him in your opinion?
The Poseidon barrel because i try it and i have two of them and just great for the performance and value of money plus the barrel come with great bucking and nub so i was wrong?
Correct me if I am..

Okey I think I missed something, I didn't know they included bucking and nub with the Poseidon barrel, I missed that. That is why I thought you only recommended a barrel and I know that you wouldn't do that so I was lost in words. Is it also a flat hop bucking and nub? So yeah my bad I missed that. I would just recommed to start with only a bucking and nub and maybe a barrel but that is only because CYMA barrels are horrific.

 

[b.samriey]

Yeah sure they might use High speed gears but that doesn't mean it is 13:1, did you count the ratio of the gears, might as well be 16:1. For example Lonex calls their 16:1 ratio gears high speed, while in airsoft we usually refer to 13:1 as high speed, but did you ever consider the 10:1 ratio gears that siegetek makes, probably not so high speed is not a definition for 13:1 ratio gears. I think it is more of a marketing gimmick, because you use a 11.1V right? With 13:1 you would be able to get 30 RPS and I don't believe you get that right?

The KWA stock gears gives you 26rps with 11.1 lipo, check this youtube video.

Come on @b.samriey this is just absolutely incorrect, especialy to get more range you shouldn't start with upgrading the barrel. I know you love the Poseidon barrel design but they don't have some special unicorn dust all over them that magically adds more range and a hop up is definently not gonna change the range.

I give my opinion to you on privet before i found this barrel just equal to Prometheus, which improve my m4 rate of fire and range 50 meter +
So when you try it you will be close from the actual result.
If it was just average barrel than i shouldn't buy another one to the m16.

 

[b.samriey]

No need to get agitated people. I greatly appreciate all the help so far. I'll start with the smaller upgrades and see what I'll do from there on.

Plan so far:

Start with lonex hop up and maple leaf/ prometheus bucking and nub.

Maybe I'll get a better 6.03 mm barrel as well while I'm at it.

After noticing the improvements I'll probably be upgrade hooked and put the rest on my christmas list. (beats the hell out of a new pair of socks and a couple of sweaters lol)

The blue Prometheus bucking is the worst bucking has been ever made in the airsoft history.
The Purple Prometheus bucking is great one so be advice.

 

[michiel80]

Thanks for the heads up! I was looking at the purple one anyway, so that would have been okay.
I'll order the lonex hop up chamber along with the maple leaf bucking and nub tgis evening.

Hopefully I get the time this weekend to install them and try them out in the back garden.

 

[Foodie88]

Good luck Michiel, let us know your results. Oh and a simple tip, make sure you install the nub straight or your shots will fly off to the side

 

[michiel80]

Will do! Thanks for all the help and advice everyone! Great community spirit!

 

[Twinfromhell]

Prommy Purple might fit very tight.
If you have a plastic Hop up unit, it might even crack or bucking might snap. So be very careful when installing.

 

[bvdzeeuw]

Nice! Ga je veel plezier van hebben!